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Leftist Pragmatism vs. Rightist Idealism by AtheosEmanon Leftist Pragmatism vs. Rightist Idealism by AtheosEmanon
This is generally my view when it comes to many situations but particularly with this case is about the politics of this country, United States of America:

I am the first to say you should have ideals; idealism is great as long as it is met with some type of pragmatism and a way of achieving your goal.

Idealism + Pragmatism = great.
Simply because your idea may be tough to implement against an overwhelming force, have some type of real plan that would actually satisfy the basic chance of getting it done…

In general, perhaps this is my own personal bias of one of those leftist but with this new breed of conservatives have ideals that are in someway not realistic at all and are not tempered with any type of pragmatic realism… but that does not stop them, they seem to love that.

I fail to see how cutting social programs when 1/6, 50 million of your citizens now live below poverty and ½, 50% of your citizens make just enough money to be broke.
-no one denies that there are abuses in the system, which goes back to my later closing that if you wish for system reform to decrease or eliminate system abuses then I am all for that. Yet I fail to see how completely eliminating a system that people literally depend on just to live is “making lives” better for the people…

I fail to see how cutting all environmental institutions would make our environment better for the people.
-if you can tell how getting rid of institutions that test the toxicity of water, air, dirt… that ensures environments are safe from destruction where rare species may live, that ensure the air that we breath and the water that we drink is as clean as possible is “bad” … for the environment then perhaps I am missing your logic…

I fail to see how allowing gay marriage would somehow weaken the importance.
-I have yet to hear one good argument against gay marriage, I do laugh at it will destroy the idea of marriage… with a 54% divorce rate in this country I doubt it will destroy it any more than the institution of marriage has already been destroyed…

I fail to see how advocating for the abolishment of the minimum wage system which gives the worker a BASIC livable wage is a good thing.
Going by this chart, the “lowest” minimum wage is $4.00 an hour… if you go by the 40 hour work week…
[Formula used was simply 4[minimum wage pay per hour] x 8 [hours work per day] x 5 [days a week] x 52 [weeks a year]

I would love to hear how $8,320 dollars A YEAR, is “too much” … the state with this as its poverty rate as of 2010 is 15.2% poverty level… which sadly is just 1% less than the 1/6 poverty level of the entire country…

If you can explain, how $8,320 dollars A YEAR, BEFORE TAXES, will support a family and you think this is too much.. Then I would like to hear your alternative…

Using [link] which shows how much taxes each person pays ... a person making $8,320 a year pays 10% in taxes, so right off the top take 832 dollars right off the top which leaves this person with only $7,488 dollars to get through the entire year for rent, food, bills and so on… let us evaluate this $7,488 for the YEAR leaves them with only 624 dollars a month for all of the aforementioned… which is not enough for a family of four.

[understanding they may need government assistance yet this is speaking of if they abolish government assistance and leave minimum wage what the person would have to try and make due with a year….]

The highest minimum wage according to that chart of minimum wage by state is $8.80, while you may say, WOW MORE THAN DOUBLE THE LOWEST!!! GET THEM!! Let us evaluate what is …

[Once again formula used was simply 8.80[minimum wage pay per hour] x 8 [hours work per day] x 5 [days a week] x 52 [weeks a year]

If you can explain how $18,304 dollars is too much for a family to make A YEAR, BEFORE TAXES, and how you think this should be cut.

Once again using which shows much taxes each person pays in according to their income … a person making $18,304 dollars a year is subject to 15% in taxes, which right off the top of their income just take off $2,745.60 which leaves them with $15,558.40 for the entire year. Which leaves them with $1,296.53 per month to live off of…

[understanding they may need government assistance yet this is speaking of if they abolish government assistance and leave minimum wage what the person would have to try and make due with a year….]

NOW!! Look at those amounts per month..
I would also like you to keep in mind that the average family of four spends about 300-500 dollars a month in groceries… so if you slice that off the top, PLEASE KEEP IN MIND I AM SPEAKING OF ONLY IF GOVERNMENT AID IS CUT YET MINIMUM WAGE STAYS IN PLACE.

ALSO KEEP IN MIND, that on average Rent is 1/3 of a family’s yearly income…

I am sorry I fail to see how getting rid of government social programs and getting rid of minimum wage would make life better for those who literally depend on it for their very existence…

I fail to see how raging against health care is better for the people
-when 100-150K people in your nation die each and every year because of a lack of or no medical coverage at all…

Am I the only one who finds 5-7.5% of your national population increase dying every decade because of a lack of medical coverage [The US on average grows about 20 million people a decade, and yet with 1-1.5M people dying each decade because of a lack of medical coverage is something that should be addressed; yet when it is address it is usually opposed by the other side]

I fail to see how continuously cutting education would make it better for everyone.
-Under the Reagan years alone we cut 18.6% out of the department of Education budget.

If you can explain how cutting 18.6% of an education budget while expecting millions of more kids to enter the education system in those 8 years makes it easier. All you are guaranteeing and that is exactly what happen is that the system because less efficient and does not work as well.

Look at our place in the world when we invested heavily in the education system, when we invested heavily in our education system America was in the top ten of all academic subjects worldwide. We use to be great at Math, Reading and science… and now we fall in the 20s and 30s ranges of these subjects on the worldwide scale.

Call me your average leftist, when did taking care of our own become a bad thing to be raged against. My idealism is tempered with my pragmatism that is a simple rule, to each their own while we take care of our own… a simple rule that has the greatest of individual liberty and does not have in one of the richest countries in the world 100-150K of your citizens die from a lack of medical coverage, where your education system is continuous cut and continuous does worse and you cannot see the problem, where you claim a beacon of liberty while denying your citizens that very liberty…

I fail to see how if you got all of your wants, if all government programs were abolished, if minimum wage was abolished, if all environmental programs were abolished, if public education is continuous cut ..or abolished as I have heard some say that they want, if medicare and medicaid are abolished and so on how this will make life better for the citizenry… But that is just me..

I can go on and on about my issues with many conservative views in this nation but I shall stop here, for now, I may or may not update this later or post a part II to this piece covering more subjects….

Other crap for you to check out & know:
Songs listened to while typing:
Check out my hippie playlist: [link]

Tracy Chapman - talking about a revolution: [link]
Yusuf Islam – Peace Train: [link]
Unknown Artist - Train Roll On: [link]
Nina Simone – I wish I knew how it would feel to be free: [link]
Enigma – Return to Innocence: [link]
The Five Stairsteps – Ooh child: [link]
Michael Jackson – Earth Song: [link]

Other Pieces:
My political ideologies: [link]
Liberals and gun ownership: [link]
Why socialism? [link]

Gay Rights:
Gay rights in America I: [link]
Gay rights in America II: [link]
Debate with an “ex gay” Christian convert: [link]

Influence map: [link]
An atheist on theism & atheism: [link]
Declaration of truth: [link]
What it means to be an atheist: [link]
Atheist leftist answers your questions...:

I understand my views are not in line with many conservatives, and for that I am quite grateful, I am an unapologetic liberal, I am an unapologetic progressive, I am an unapologetic Democratic Socialist [not democrat] … my ideals I believe to be true for me does not require your admiration nor is it hindered by your denigration. It requires an ideal, a belief of something better and something truthful rather than the simple selfishness of just worrying about yourself and to hell with anyone else. We have never been a nation of selfishness, in fact we are quite giving to other nations… I am just wondering when will we start some of these charitable giving to our own citizens rather than trying to take care of the rest of the world…

In closing I shall just post a few of my favorite quotes and let them stand for themselves..

"Truth never damages a cause that is just."
-Mahatma Gandhi

“The reasonable man adapts himself to the world; the unreasonable one persists in trying to adapt the world to himself. Therefore all progress depends on the unreasonable man.”
George Bernard Shaw

"I will not attack your doctrines nor your creeds if they accord liberty to me. If they hold thought to be dangerous - if they aver that doubt is a crime, then I attack them one and all, because they enslave the minds of men."
- Robert G Ingersoll

"A man's ethical behavior should be based effectually on sympathy, education, and social ties"
- Albert Einstein

"The modern conservative is engaged in one of man's oldest exercises in moral philosophy; that is, the search for a superior moral justification for selfishness."
-- John Kenneth Galbraith

No sir, it is not a handout, it is a hand up. We are a nation that has never just left our own on the battlefield of life to die. No man, woman, or child shall be left to starve and if… If we ever came to a point when we were willing to sacrifice what is right, for what is profitable then sirs that is the day I decide the people no longer deserve the compassion of liberty and have given up their truthful ideals of justice.
-Emanon [me]

The ideals of children shall be the ideals that govern the future... that is, if not corrupted by the inevitable selfishness of adulthood
-Emanon [me]

Every ideal of liberty has come at the spear of liberal principles practiced.
-Emanon [me]

I like progress too much to be beholden to the chains of the past, the bounds of social regression known as conservatism.
-Emanon [me]

People fear insanity because it is unpredictable, because they often cannot prepare for it and thus it may provoke that dangerous thing of change... or at the very least make us question why we believe what we believe.
-Emanon [me]

Reason is a great thing; if it can be factually supported and humanely applied
-Emanon [me]

None are more blindly determined, than the man that believes himself, to be a winner, while his people continue to suffer.
-Emanon [me]

As always comrades,
Let knowledge be that truth, which portrays humanity, condemns malevolence; that respects the differences in others while abandoning the hatred and misconceptions of the past.
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FlutterBOSS Featured By Owner May 6, 2014  Hobbyist Digital Artist
That's so funny, I view liberalism as idealism and conservatism as pragmatism. XD 
AtheosEmanon Featured By Owner May 6, 2014  Hobbyist General Artist
Liberalism like conservatism are very broad terms that as we leave America especially tend to lose their meanings.. in some countries the "Conservative" Party would be rather liberal and the "Liberal" parties by American standards would seem rather conservative...  .. and in some countries the liberal parties will seem liberal by American standards and the conservative parties will seem rather conservative by American standards.

But, you can of course view it however you wish.  - - which is why I gave a few examples since depending on the issue at hand both can be idealistic in a general sense.
FlutterBOSS Featured By Owner May 6, 2014  Hobbyist Digital Artist
Yes, I understand that. I was referring to American conservatism and liberalism. Conservatism as in keeping things the same and/or restoring them to their greatness, and liberalism as in liberating the people from themselves via the government, or something. 

That's true. To a conservative like me, liberalism seems to prefer ideology over pragmatism. I'm sure it seems the opposite to liberals. 
AtheosEmanon Featured By Owner May 6, 2014  Hobbyist General Artist
Am off for the night, have a good one.
AtheosEmanon Featured By Owner May 6, 2014  Hobbyist General Artist
I would push back and say both believe that the government should do what they want..and not do what they do not want. But as with most things, there is no homogeneous view of all conservatives or all liberals even on issues that are generally seen as "liberal" and "conservative" by American standards... many conservatives want the law to state that marriage is between one man and one woman - - while you have another group of conservatives that believes gay marriage should be legal - - which is why when we are discussing liberalism and conservatism I, as I said in this piece and all of pieces speak solely for myself not "all" liberals... but that is why like the piece I generally prefer to take specific issues than say ALL LIBERALS WANT THIS OR ALL CONSERVATIVES WANT THAT.

Not really, I would say some liberals seem to prefer ideology over pragmatism, just like come conservatism seem to prefer ideology over pragmatism.. but most people I would imagine if you sat down and discussed the issues can generally when you set aside merely speaking "as a liberal" or "as a conservative" can generally come to an agreement on most issues ..and if they cannot are usually more than happy to agree to disagree as long as civility remains...

if I opened my comment with OH CONSERVATIVES HATE AMERICA, THEY WANT IT ALL FAIL!!! [As I most often get when debating some conservatives] that would tell you from the start that the person is illogical because they assume or rather seem to assume the most fundamentalist, fringe of a group and use this fringe to make up their view of the entire group. I have many conservative friends that know I am a leftist [liberal, progressive, democratic socialist] and I have many religious friends of liberal and conservative that know I am an agnostic atheist.. but as long as civility remains and I am not telling of a difference I have just because they are conservative or religious [though most of my religious friends and I share the same view with respect to a more secular view of the government]...

I apologize for the long comment, so I will just state that as long as civility is there and without the useless mass generalizations of ALL CONSERVATIVES/LIBERALS think this then I think people can get to the meat on most subjects and cut through the bullshit.
WrathFan99 Featured By Owner Aug 23, 2013  Student General Artist
Hello , my friend . I`m a Pragmatic Democratic Socialist , too ! :)
AtheosEmanon Featured By Owner Aug 23, 2013  Hobbyist General Artist
:thumbsup: I wish more people were like that!
WrathFan99 Featured By Owner Aug 23, 2013  Student General Artist
As do I , dude . As do I . BTW , I`m also a Valentinian Neo-Gnostic Atheist Humanist ( Former Roman Catholic and Libertarian ) .
AtheosEmanon Featured By Owner Aug 23, 2013  Hobbyist General Artist
Sounds an interesting mixture, I believe I have explained my hm opposition to gnosticism in the realms of theism or atheism in the other reply.

Thanks for the watch and all of the faves
WrathFan99 Featured By Owner Aug 23, 2013  Student General Artist
And , I have replied back on why I believe Agnosticism is far intellectually inferior to Gnosticism when it comes to epistemological and philosophical formulae . Gnosticism may be less comfortable than Agnosticism but in my view it is far more intellectually honest to keep seeking knowledge than to give up the search halfway through .
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