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  • Listening to: Tracy Chapman - Talkin bout a revolution
  • Reading: Emile Durkheim: A Biography
  • Watching: The screen as I type
  • Playing: with the computer
  • Eating: nothing
  • Drinking: Orange Juice
I was debating with a friend. She said if she can choose what is the greater problem as far as homicides go-  between "guns" or "criminals" She said that the gun is the greatest issue and that we need an assault weapons ban!!

If anyone knows me knows that I am 100% against gun bans, and other than for emotional arguments I see no logical reason behind them.

I will say why I am against gun bans, there are according to several different reports, 120-160 million gun owners in America… there are 113,000 people shot every year on average [the CDC statistics says 100K but say they take out the average 13,000 people shot with BB Guns each year..] of the remaining 100K … 18K of those are suicides… so just said that 82K people each year are shot by someone else either by accident or on purpose.

What this says is that 1 person in every 1,200-1,600 people who own guns will use the guns in an irresponsible manner, that means a tenth of 1% of people will use the guns wrong and that 99.9% of people who have guns will not use them wrong, so I see no reason to ban guns because a tenth of one percent will do something wrong with it.

I am also against banning "assault weapons" [which is more or less a political term since "assault weapons" aka fully automatic weapons have been banned since 1934 [and yes, I would not care if they were made legal, oh noes!! Call the guards lmao]

According to the FBI of the 100,000 people who are shot every year, 4% of those use rifles and 25% of those use "assault rifles".. what that means is of the 100K people shot every year, only 4,000 are shot with a rifle of any kind; and 25% Of that or 1,000 are shot with "assault rifle" or semi automatic rifle.

According to gun statistics, there are 4 million "assault rifles" in America and 200,000 sold every year.. so we are going to ban the gun that millions of people own…. Because 1000 people chose to do something wrong with it?... that to me, makes no sense.

I know, no one wants to see people mass shot… yet according to the FBI and other students the gun used most in mass shootings, a mass shooting is any shooting incident where 3 or more people are shot.. the gun used most are pistols.

I find it a bit odd that people want to ban "assault rifles" which are only responsible for 1% [1,000 people] shot every year… yet are okay with the pistol which accounts for 60-70 [60,000-70,000 people  shot each year] .. seems a bit hm bothersome that you want to ban the gun responsible for 1% of the shootings but not the gun responsible for 60-70% Of the shootings.

One woman said, SINCE I AM AGAINST GUN BANS, THAT MEANS I AM FOR MASS SHOOTINGS.. yeah, I am also against drunk drivers yet you do not see me saying ban all cars.. that type of argument, I understand is made from an emotional standpoint but it makes no sense.

Another one I love is.. you are against gun bans, so clearly you have never known anyone who has been shot. I have had several friends and family members who have been shot and survived and many who have been killed by  gun violence, yet I never said.. oh … my friend/family member was shot .. so we must ban the gun, I  always blamed the criminal, not the gun. For the reasons stated, it is hard for me to blame the gun when 99.9% of people who own the same gun do nothing wrong with it..so I am to say let us ban the gun because a tenth of 1% will do something wrong with it.

I often use these two as an example, New York City.. in the late 80s and early 90s NYC had a very high crime rate, so we took the strict gun laws route and saw little decrease in crime, what we did next, and what did work was hiring more cops, increasing foot and mobile patrol in high crime areas and that is when we saw significant decreases in crime.

Then we take the Chicago example.. they went the stricter gun law route.. but for some budgetary issues they had to let go of many of their cops and now have one of the highest if not the highest murder rate of the country.

As I addressed in my Chicago school teacher post before, the issue of course is not just addressing gun violence [of which according to the nation's largest police polling place "Police One" cops say that gun bans will not decrease crime much… ironically the one question that was taken out of the poll was background checks in which in other polls show overwhelming support for law enforcement … as well as an increased police presence in high crime areas.

So, while I am against gun bans, this idea that there is nothing that can be done. In Chicago and elsewhere is not true, hire more officers, place them on foot and mobile patrols in the highest crime areas .. you may hear the term disperse and decrease which speaks to targeting high crime areas in which criminals generally disperse into different areas and as cops target these areas also, making arrests etc .. it decreases crime rates..

So, I posted this journal to ask you, what is the greater issue if you had to choose between the two, the guns or the criminals..

I want to see what you would say so I may not respond directly to comments depending on what is said, and would ask that it remain solely on this topic… or connected topics.. I of course have no issue with you debating amongst yourselves…

Okay that is all..
Goes back to my liberal, progressive, democratic socialist – national conservative cave to
1- Stockpile guns and wait for the zombies
2- Repeal the 22nd amendment and then run for office *whistles*
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:iconcamalierogue:
CamalieRogue Featured By Owner Nov 25, 2013
Would it be possible for you to send me a link to the sources you used in your journal? I am currently writing an essay on the topic of gun bans and I would like to use your sources as an argument against them.
If you do then thank you
If you don't or if you're unable to do so then I understand and thank you for taking the time to reply to me
Reply
:iconatheosemanon:
AtheosEmanon Featured By Owner Nov 26, 2013  Hobbyist General Artist
I had forgotten about this journal so it took me a little while to google around and find the stats.. and I was unsure as to exactly which stats you wanted so if it was none of these then tell me and I will try to search for the ones I used when I wrote this 6 months ago...

Here are several links which may help you
webappa.cdc.gov/sasweb/ncipc/n…
This CDC page .. you put in from what year to what year you want.. this particular link allows you to put from 2001-2012 but a quick search will allow for a wider amount of years and you put what you want.. which I assume are firearms .. etc

The best site for general gun data is this site
www.gunpolicy.org/

Which allows for easy view of the gun policy and ownership of guns by country

the American link is here
www.gunpolicy.org/firearms/reg…

they also break down gun deaths by gun type.. which I think would go well with your essay on gun bans and the target of "assault weapons" when

www.cdc.gov/nchs/fastats/suici…
^here is the link where CDC says nearly 20,000 people who are shot each year are suicides

www.politifact.com/truth-o-met…
this politifiact provides the 100,000 number cited and the links to the study which breaks down as between homicide, suicide and just accidental/assault where deaths do not occur


I tried to find links I may have used 6 months ago or that I thought could help you, if there is something I left out.. just tell me and I will try to search for where I got the information from
Reply
:iconcamalierogue:
CamalieRogue Featured By Owner Nov 29, 2013
Thank you for the links. This is more than enough for what I needed
Reply
:iconatheosemanon:
AtheosEmanon Featured By Owner Nov 29, 2013  Hobbyist General Artist
best wishes in your report
Reply
:iconcamalierogue:
CamalieRogue Featured By Owner Nov 29, 2013
thanks
Reply
:iconcrying-goddess:
Crying-Goddess Featured By Owner May 22, 2013
Yes ban the guns because we all know criminals follow the law. From what I've heard most guns used in these mass shootings are bought illegally.
Reply
:iconatheosemanon:
AtheosEmanon Featured By Owner May 22, 2013  Hobbyist General Artist
Are they? The last few mass shootings used legally bought guns... the Bushmaster AR-15 which was used in the last few weapons were bought legally ... though a few of them may have taken them without permission or by killing the owner... but I saw no report of the recent mass shootings of them being illegal
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:iconcrying-goddess:
Crying-Goddess Featured By Owner May 22, 2013
That's what I heard I honestly have no idea.
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:iconatheosemanon:
AtheosEmanon Featured By Owner May 22, 2013  Hobbyist General Artist
Though even if they did steal the gun.. which compared to killing mass groups of people would not the focal point the facts are that less than a tenth o 1 of gun owners will shoot someone or themselves or have someone take their guns to harm someone or themselves so gun bans are moronic to me.
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:iconcrying-goddess:
Crying-Goddess Featured By Owner May 22, 2013
Exactly. I'm not giving up my rights because someone else.
Reply
:iconatheosemanon:
AtheosEmanon Featured By Owner May 22, 2013  Hobbyist General Artist
That is one of my point of disagreement with many of my progressive and liberal friends they want assault weapons bans.. hell I would not care if they repealed the 1934 law ad allowed fully automatic weapons to be legal
Reply
:iconlolitheleopard:
LolitheLeopard Featured By Owner May 18, 2013  Hobbyist General Artist
I think what would REALLY reduce the crime here in the U.S is better social programs like Single-Payer Health Care and Education, Universal Mental Health services, etc. instead of banning guns altogether.
I also think that people who buy guns should be required by law to take a firearm training course like Switzerland does.
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:iconatheosemanon:
AtheosEmanon Featured By Owner May 18, 2013  Hobbyist General Artist
I agree with a better health care system and mental health system [and addressing other socioeconomic issues in a given community - welfare reform, education reform, prison reform] would help decrease gun crimes ad poverty rates significantly.

I would have no issue with yearly gun tests to show you know how to use the weapons properly.. some may have a issue with that though
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:iconpocket-fulla-shells:
Pocket-fulla-shells Featured By Owner May 16, 2013  Hobbyist Writer
As someone from the UK, guns are a bit odd to me since the UK culture doesn't think much of them as a whole, but I'll chip in what I think

In the end, the US seems to be very enthusiastic as a whole about its guns - it seems, to someone outside the US, to outright worship the constitution/amendments as being borderline infallible and with the second amendment in there, it seems like that alone would convince a lot of people. Not to mention how guns played a huge part in making the US its own nation in the first place with the independence war and whatnot.

A lot of the arguments against gun control I think are stupid such as "Criminals don't obey laws" (might as well say that with any law then), "Why don't you ban knives/cars" argument (knives and cars have other uses, guns are designed solely for violence and killing. Curbing someone's right to personal transportation is a far bigger loss on freedoms.) and "Protection from the government" (please tell me how you'll be a match for the SWAT/FBI/whatever) but in the end of the day, its just going to make a massive black market given the enthusiasm for guns and a massive amount of people would find themselves to be lawbreakers, thus it'll just fuel the criminal underworld even if you ignore the protection from criminals argument.

TL:DR, banning guns in the US will probably be more trouble than its worth.
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:iconatheosemanon:
AtheosEmanon Featured By Owner May 16, 2013  Hobbyist General Artist
Very nice, I very much enjoyed my visits to the UK.. though it has been several years since I have been to your country.. and yea I would agree that the “gun culture” is quite different in the UK from America.

I would agree with you, some people in this country seem to think that the 2nd amendment must never even be questioned. Some people are even against background checks, though most Americans are not against background checks and fully support it. I admit some bias coming from a huge military and law enforcement family who started teaching me to shoot at the age of six.. so I have always enjoyed shooting and never had a issue with guns,

.. but yes, I agree with you as well on the history of guns and American history.

Lmao, I agree that the criminals do not obey laws is one of the dumbest arguments I have ever heard.

Well yes and no, guns are designed to kill at their inception, be it hunting, or personal protection but of course 99.9% of gun owners do nothing wrong with the gun which is why I find the argument of banning a dumb one because 0.1% of gun owners may do something wrong with it.

I would think the greater issue would be bombs and drones than the military and FBI.. law enforcement as a whole in America only has around 10 million guns if you include both military, federal branches and police officers… vs the guns of citizens which is 30x that much. But the likelihood of us having to fight against the government is a slim to none chance.

Yup, which is why I always say no matter what gun law you make.. criminals will find a way to get the guns and there would always be a market to cater to them.. so stricter gun laws and gun bans only effect law biding citizens for the most part.

I look at Data... less than 0.1% of gun owners use their guns illegally.. so banning a gun eve though the other 99.9% of people who have that gun will do nothing wrong with it.

Cops themselves also say that gun bans will not stop crime... so it seems a feel good measure with no real practical applications [I admit that I have an utter contempt for the gun laws of New York City...]

NO “TLDR” I read it all and appreciate your comment
Reply
:icon2112yyz2112:
2112yyz2112 Featured By Owner May 6, 2013
I read an early response to the gun ban issue which pointed out that in countries where a widespread ban on all guns there was a spike in violence... assaults, stabbings etc....
A push toward pre-emptive deflection.... a solid moral code into children. Perhaps accolades for GOOD people in the same way that we grace those people who are GOOD at something.
Reply
:iconatheosemanon:
AtheosEmanon Featured By Owner May 12, 2013  Hobbyist General Artist
I agree, but sadly .. from what I see from most of my fellow leftists is they simply think gun bans will solve the issue... which is rather naive.
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:iconpurplephoneixstar:
PurplePhoneixStar Featured By Owner May 6, 2013  Hobbyist General Artist
We need to attack the social problems that create crime and then the guns will not really be an issue. I mean after Newtown you hear a lot about guns but nothing about making mental health help more accessable and less stigmatized.
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:iconlolitheleopard:
LolitheLeopard Featured By Owner May 14, 2013  Hobbyist General Artist
:iconfblikeplz:
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:iconatheosemanon:
AtheosEmanon Featured By Owner May 12, 2013  Hobbyist General Artist
I completely agree, I laugh that I am called the "token liberal" by friends since when it comes to guns.. they tend to come to me to debate with others so they can say.. oh look, a liberal against gun bans bwhahah
Reply
:iconpurplephoneixstar:
PurplePhoneixStar Featured By Owner May 13, 2013  Hobbyist General Artist
It makes me think of something Steven Colbert said about it being okay to agree with some of the other side. You don't have to be a party zombie and follow every little thing that they want if you don't want it.
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:iconatheosemanon:
AtheosEmanon Featured By Owner May 13, 2013  Hobbyist General Artist
especially for me since I am not a member of any political party :P
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:iconpurplephoneixstar:
PurplePhoneixStar Featured By Owner May 13, 2013  Hobbyist General Artist
Neither am I anymore. I can agree with some points of some but that doesn't mean I have to vote for one line only
Reply
:iconatheosemanon:
AtheosEmanon Featured By Owner May 13, 2013  Hobbyist General Artist
I generally vote for who I agree with more.. yet I admit given how far to the right the GOP has went.. unsure if I will be voting for them anytime soon
Reply
:iconpurplephoneixstar:
PurplePhoneixStar Featured By Owner May 13, 2013  Hobbyist General Artist
Yeah, same here....
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